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RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 12:33:14 PM

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FR

I've been for about 2.5 years, and I've never had any major problems with this forum. A few times, in the Politics and Religion section, I got into it with a couple of different posters, although it may have been a misunderstanding.

My opinion is that things seem to go smoother if people stick to the given message and topic at hand, rather than trying to read between the lines and make assumptions about the messenger. That's usually when things tend to go sour in any discussion.

Then there are the newbies who might go into the usual questions/topics which have been done to death, but then, nobody has to answer them either. A lot of these supposedly bothersome threads are kept alive by people complaining about them.

(in reply to stef)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 12:35:13 PM

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quote:

Why ask only about how to retain new posters? What about retaining old timers who maybe get a little irascible and sarcastic at times, but who often have so much wisdom to offer and who provide some entertainment value to boot?

People have pointed out that the forums have some sadists participating and newbies could stand to develop a thicker skin. If the entire governing body of the forums also developed a thicker skin, we might not have the exodus of funny and interesting people we do now and maybe the forums wouldn't be as flat as they've been for some time.

I do not know what you mean. If you wish to criticize moderation not related to new posters, please do so on a new thread.

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 12:35:35 PM

SylvereApLeanan

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From: Hell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Holy sh*t! It's a 'newbie got bashed' thread and I didn't have anything to do with it. I might faint.

I took up the mantle for you. Tag, you're it.

In all seriousness though, I don't think it's our job or the mods' job to make newbies feel welcome or change how we post to create CollarChat Lite: Kinder and Gentler. I participate in forums all over the 'Net and have since the mid-1990s. Back in the day, it was commonly understood that newcomers were expected to read all of the rules and stickies and then lurk until they got a feel for the culture of the forum. Only after they'd done all of that were they welcome to post. That bit of netiquette has fallen by the wayside; maybe it's time to reinforce it.

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(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 1:03:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan
I took up the mantle for you. Tag, you're it.

In all seriousness though, I don't think it's our job or the mods' job to make newbies feel welcome or change how we post to create CollarChat Lite: Kinder and Gentler. I participate in forums all over the 'Net and have since the mid-1990s. Back in the day, it was commonly understood that newcomers were expected to read all of the rules and stickies and then lurk until they got a feel for the culture of the forum. Only after they'd done all of that were they welcome to post. That bit of netiquette has fallen by the wayside; maybe it's time to reinforce it.

I just came from the thread that spawned this thread and frankly, except for the gal who doesn't just have a chip on her shoulder, but the whole damned potato, I think it's much ado about nothing. Wow. Huge shock. Somebody showed up and expected to find a 'friend' to engage in a kink that happens to be intimate and got told he probably wasn't going about it the right way. The error was pointed out and personally, I think he's an ok, if not just a bit misguided guy.

Granted, I think it would be great if folks actually read ToS, the forum guidelines, and for a bonus, maybe had a look at some of the FAQs. Some folks (yourself included) worked really hard on those. Unfortunately, the fast food society that we live in doesn't always include things like doing research.

For what it's worth, I didn't do that either when I first showed up. Hell, I still remember Ron sending that email when I first showed up to explain that dang vanilla cone. LuckyAlbatross, in her way, showed how that search feature works. It took a couple of lumps but that's what got Me reading ToS and a few other things. If it can work that way for Me, I'm pretty sure it can work that way for a few other folks, too.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SylvereApLeanan)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 1:09:28 PM

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But yanno, the thing is, the real world is like that too, nobody is gonna be all fawning all over the clueless. And it is somewhat like sexual harrassment, there are people who can get away with it because they have jen nais se quios, and some that you will call the cops they say hello, cuz they just go about it all greasy and tacky.

Here is my first post (under this nick):

http://www.collarchat.com/m_100186/mpage_1/key_stupid%252Cchicken%252Cdance/tm.htm#100186

I took some shit myownself. I wore my big boy panties to work that day and look how much my life has changed (not one bit).

And don't give away that I'm privately a nice helpful feller, or nobody is gonna believe they owe me blowjobs.

Hey, some of this is theater, kids. Some of it is serious, some of it is laughable, some of it is life.

Let's not cave in here.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 1:32:27 PM

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quote:

I just came from the thread that spawned this thread and frankly, except for the gal who doesn't just have a chip on her shoulder, but the whole damned potato, I think it's much ado about nothing.

I was also inspired by these two threads:

Only Positive?!
Life After The Lifestyle

Edited to add: and this one: Finding a boy for My boy - any suggestions?

< Message edited by VideoAdminChi -- 12/17/2013 4:23:47 PM >

(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:02:06 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

quote:

I just came from the thread that spawned this thread and frankly, except for the gal who doesn't just have a chip on her shoulder, but the whole damned potato, I think it's much ado about nothing.

I was also inspired by these two threads:

Only Positive?!
Life After The Lifestyle

While train wreck threads like those generate a lot of comments and pageviews in the short term, to expand a forum in the long term, you need knowledgeable people discussing concrete topics that matter to people's lives. The Only Positive thread is like a CM inside joke, and the OP of the Life After thread has an untreated mental condition. Neither thread will make CollarChat the go-to place to discuss and learn about bondage techniques or whether a fucksaw is worth the money.

The StackExchange web sites have written a fair amount about theory of building question-and-answer forums, so that's one place you could look if you wanted more background on how to address the problems that are occurring here.

Fair warning: I've had significant differences of opinion with Alpha about the right way to proceed on this. She won and I lost, of course. My side of the story is that page views from train wreck threads are nice, but really miss the point. In the long run, you need a variety of active threads discussing real-life content, such as, "What is the best way to encourage a woman to give me a rim job?" or, "What's you favorite way to give or receive body worship?" Those threads will be shorter and less dramatic than the Positive thread, but they will be threads that people bookmark, and ones that appear on Google searches when people are wondering what to do next with their real-world sex lives.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to VideoAdminChi)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:04:40 PM

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Or they could even have some 'je ne sais quoi' or did you mean a female called 'Jen gave birth to an alien'?!?

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(in reply to VideoAdminChi)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:08:11 PM

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Yeah, I knew you would be along to patch that patwa up for me, all toot sweet.

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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to MariaB)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:16:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi
I was also inspired by these two threads:

Only Positive?!
Life After The Lifestyle

Ahhhhh. Now I feel more like Myself.

That "only positive" thing, well, there was just no way that was going to jive in My world. I'm sorry, but I've just been through too much hell these past seven months or so with a front row seat in watching an innocent man be falsely accused of some pretty hideous stuff. I wouldn't wish that crap on My worst enemy.

The other one? Any person trying to imply that they were coerced into slavery from a non adult age and try to call it leather is not going to stop Me from throwing the bullshit flag. Truthfully, I'm about fed up to My eyeballs with the bullshit of "<moan> I was a slave and don't know how to get life back" or whatever other kind of hash some people try to sling.

In both of those cases, there were a lot of things that I didn't say. Not because, in My view, I actually have been 'nicer' because somebody has been making Me happy on a personal level these past few weeks. Certainly not because I'm ready to coddle every person who wants to throw shit. Quite often, I hold My tongue because I don't want the Mod Squad to have to clean up after My posts because I let somebody have it with the whole truth. I'm not intentionally attempting to be another problem that you have to solve. As long as I manage to stay within ToS and the forum guidelines while doing it, I figure I'm meeting folks half way.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to VideoAdminChi)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:18:27 PM

VideoAdminGamma

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Fast reply

How to retain new posters is what we are trying to focus on in this topic.

I encourage other topics to discuss other things that may increase the enjoyment of the forums. In this way we can focus on each without detracting from some good ideas.

I do like the idea about a section for "New to the Forum". We could move the Intros there, have some better FAQ's and a Q&A area for new folks to ask questions about the etiquette and functionality here.

I am also in the process of revamping a program that does use more volunteers that will help new members to the forums in more of a mentor role. More to come on that after the first of the year.

Thanks for being a part of CollarMe,
Gamma

_____________________________

"The administration has the authority to handle situations in whatever manner they feel to be in the best interests of the forum, at that moment, in response to that event. "

http://www.collarchat.com/m_72/tm.htm

(in reply to MariaB)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:28:12 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminGamma
How to retain new posters is what we are trying to focus on in this topic.

Gamma, the current percentage of retention of new posters is fine, by which I mean it's within the range expected by any site with years of history and content. There isn't much of a knob to fine-tune to increase it, or it would be occurring at sites with far more resources. 5% or so is what reddit, StackExchange, etc. are dealing with. If anything, CM might be slightly ahead of that number. If that is really all you want to discuss here, then the thread is over for practical purposes.

So I choose to interpret "retaining new posters" as "increasing the number of posters who stick around." The link in the chain to pull, then, is to increase the number of first-time OPs posted by people with social skills. About 5% of those people will stick around (make, e.g., 50 posts in the course of a year), if you change absolutely nothing about how the forums are moderated.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to VideoAdminGamma)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:30:14 PM

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Excellent idea for mentorship. No one needs to be coddle but it will definitely make them feel better about posting and welcomed and most of all respected. I think respect is what this is all about.

I am part of another forum that when a new person joins and they introduce themselves they receive a PM by a Moderator welcoming them to the forums and giving them links to the where the rules are posted. They are shown where to contact mods for situations. It is a welcome and a hello...that they are safe but also explains that this a uncensored free space.

(in reply to VideoAdminGamma)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:44:06 PM

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As an aside, the post currently at the top of General, asking for advice about how best to do self-bondage to nipples, is exactly the kind of OP that needs to be encouraged and showcased. I don't know the answer, so I won't be posting there, but hopefully someone knowledgeable will. Also, it might help to have a "Forum Ranger" type position, someone whose job it is to engage in informed research if no one seems to know the answer to a question. Example: "I don't know the answer myself, but I did some internet searching, and here's a link to what seems as though it might be a reliable source." That will build a culture of helpfulness and question-answering, instead of a culture of fake-spotting and troll-be-goneing.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to SweetAnise)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:44:45 PM

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This is not just a website. It is a BDSM oriented club or organization.

Great such organizations have many things in common and one of those is a high standard of behavior that far exceeds the well-intentioned TOS and "recommendations" here. They eclipse them by not tolerating any disruptive and impolite behavior. Sadists in a club setting have strict rules and protocols governing interactions and no violations are allowed and instantly result in the removal of the offending parties with the only exception being if the party is new and needs to be advised once of their error.

No exceptions are allowed for "regulars" in a club setting. Ruthlessly remove anyone when they do anything else except give well intentioned advice, don't let them put newbies in their place or jump on the newbie. It is not what regulars do in club settings or they are no longer regulars.

Some have attitudes that are killing CM. Just look at some of the attitudes appearing in this very thread, some almost brag about giving a newbie a hard time when in fact they would never be able to do so in a brick and mortar BDSM club. One implies because it is a BDSM site that one can be sadistic to the newbies in forum interactions. That is wrong in a club setting and I suggest it is just as wrong here.

Has anyone suggested this is correct when participating in real life dungeons or BDSM clubs? No, because if you act mean or disrespectful to anyone, new or old, you are tossed out as RESPECT is the order of the day for anyone who is a member of a BDSM club. Picture what would happen on a club floor if any “BDSMers” gathered around a new person and verbally attacked them simply because that person said something they did not like or simply because they did not mind their place or even violated written or understood protocol in the club.

You know what would happen; The Dungeon Monitor, or the club owner or even one of the club "eye candy girls" would have it stopped and those individuals would be out the door in a few minutes time without argument, “regular” or not. Why? Because the high quality BDSM brick and mortar clubs are businesses just as CM is that rely on the members behavior in club interaction and financial support, in CM’s case, spending money with the CM advertisers. So CM to be successful must have high standards commensurate with those found in high quality brick and mortar clubs.

These are businesses and so have these high standards and swift and ruthless policing of these standards in order to attract and retain those members your advertisers want to reach and a few "regulars” and “newbies” and anyone in between who violate these rules at CM as if they have some right to do so, make lifestyle club members around the world leave quickly and never come back, leaving your advertisers with few who want to spend the money you need to attract.

So to attract these people CM must raise the behavior standards and be ruthless in ejecting those individuals who violate those rules just as happens in successful brick and mortar BDSM organizations and dungeons. This brings you up to the level and betters your current reputation soon equal to the very special and successful brick and mortar organizations. Bettering your reputation will then attract the real or new but serious BDSM crowd that spends money and has great experience and advice or attitudes and by their nature will not cause trouble in the forums and not attack or scare off new people because they don't by their nature just as they don't in the local BDSM club or dungeon.

It’s unfortunate this thread exists because when you think about it, why should it be different here just because the "club" is online? Why do knowledgeable and experienced “BDSM'rs “ who know how to act in clubs somehow lose their ability to interact politely or forget how not interact at all, and instead giving just the silent treatment we see in the clubs when someone screws up and nobody wants to deal with them, instead acting here and only here as if it is normal behavior to pile on a new person when nothing of the sort would happen in their favorite local a Dungeon or Club..

Again, how does CM retain new posters? Treat this as a higher class BDSM club and hold members to the same standards of behavior found in large successful brick and mortar clubs. No shouting. No attacks at all. No critiques on a person's OP, their profile or their style or their kink and the second that happens or the second it is known by you, the "dungeon monitor", then take quick and ruthless action, now is the time to be sadistic, and ban that person or persons instantly for a week or a month without hesitation just as would be done in a professionally run club.

Finally and in summary, neither the newbies or the regulars would miss-behave if they are held to standards found in brick and mortar BDSM clubs and taking this approach will allow CM to grow and attract the correct people just as these clubs do. Doing so will foster a genuine BDSM club member atmosphere with the associated level of professionalism and high standards that then attract more people, those same types of people who go to great BDSM brick and mortar clubs and (here is the hook) it is more likely they will spend serious money on your advertisers because they put their money into this lifestyle just as they do in their local great clubs.

Arturas

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(in reply to LadyPact)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:46:17 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminChi

Some people complain that we coddle new posters too much and some people complain that regulars are too mean. Staff does enforce a welcoming and constructive attitude in the Introduce Yourself forum.

We don't want to chase new posters away but we don't want to coddle them either. Please share your thoughts.

I don't think coddling new posters is necessary. I've been on CM off and on for a very long time, and I've seen the same crap over and over again with posters that's stuck it out for long enough to fall I to this clique or that clique. They always get testy, pissy, bitchy, and rude because they feel their longevity has ascended them into divinity. They too often loose sight of the fact that once upon a time they were the N00b looking for answers and stumbling through here, getting smacked by the generation that gained longevity before them.

It seems like a hazing nightmare, where this clique or that clique has an etiquette that is a given and anyone who dare violate the etiquette thou shalt be cast into oblivion and shunned by thy holiest of cliques.

That elitist bull shit is the problem. Aside from personal attacks, interaction is interaction and that is what we are here for. This is a world wide network and the grammar nazis keep the rest of the world at bay through ignorance. English may be your first language, and that's lovely for you, keep it to yourself.

Everyone is here to foster a relationship, in one way or the other, and the key to any relationship is the ability to relate. Our ability to relate doesn't come from I after e except after c or on mickamuss Tuesday. It comes from communication. I've seen some pretty atrocious posts, where the grammar nazis marched in with their torches, and the only thing they succeeded in doing was scaring someone with a disability or ESL off the board. It's always been easy for me to ask for clarification on a post... Seems the right thing for me, and helps bring someone deeper into the boards, and deeper into understanding wiitwd so they can figure out wiittd.

As for anyone packing around a formulae of etiquette, seek professional help. Your etiquette isn't needed here, neither are your attacks. Again, it is a world wide network and no one wants your memo. Keep the etiquette on the other side, and if you don't want me calling you babe, don't fricken talk to me. Rest assured, you will never get mail on the other side from me calling you babe... On ur jeez bithc, is highly likely, but not babe.

YMMV

Exiled

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(in reply to VideoAdminChi)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:46:40 PM

Rawni

Posts: 1175
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetAnise

I don't know if you can really change this much with the exception that the members who have been here the longest need to CHILL OUT. They scare every single newbie that comes here. Then others jump on the bandwagon. Some think that what they have to say is GOLD- but it isn't. Then they hijack the newbies threads. Yes you will get trolls and losers on any forum but you don't have to have the groupies come out to make people feel like their question is meaningless or worse they are meaningless. Online does not give people right to be hurtful. Freedom of speech or not one should have some manners.

When I was an Operator of an channel on IRC (internet relay chat) we allowed everyone in to talk and we made sure if people misbehaved they were devoiced for a period of time. Some were even kicked from the channel or worse banned (but then unbanned). However, one thing for sure we treated everyone with respect even the TROLLS! It got to the point that the trolls stop trolling and they started talking with us and became a part of our community. The old members became sorta helpers and allowed mods to handle the naughty ones. It wasn't a member's job to correct others...it was their job to enjoy the channel and talk and have fun. 12 years later I still have a connection with many of these members.

The only thing that needs to change is people's attitude. Welcome newbies and let newbies talk and be themselves. Let the mods do their job and the old members just enjoy themselves making this a fun place to be instead of a humiliating one.

One problem I see with this is that many that come to the forums, are not actually new. Through the years, the same people come with the same type of bs, claiming to be new and wounded and then we find out through comparing some posts of someone reminding us of someone else, that they are the same person repeatedly coming to troll, harass, stir up trouble, etc. Many have tried to welcome people, to the point of emailing and offering some assistance or suggestions and have been met with... get lost bucko, I didn't ask for your help.

Each of us has tried in different ways and I do admit, I can get real crabby with certain types and am not so helpful as the years have passed. I step back, look at things and re-evaluate, but that doesn't always help. I guess I am just a crabby ass. Believe it or not, I used to get upset about people jumping for very little reason, on a newbie, but some of this is simply that it is a public forum and this isn't new to many. Forums are notorious for slam dunking anyone, not just the new guy/gal. It is what it is and though I am sure many do work towards good things in various ways, it still is what it is.

Hell, I tried to help someone out the other day. Um... I hear I stirred up a hornet's nest. How was I to know they disagreed with TOS? ROFL, oh well, to the next one.

(in reply to SweetAnise)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:47:03 PM

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~FRing it~

I consider myself a relative newbie poster here. Long time CM member (under an old individual and now the couple profile) from 2006, but new to posting in the forums. I started late here because the rumors of "sew meen" veteran posters were known even back then and it was intimidating. But I put on my big girl panties and joined the conversation side anyway. So it's definitely not that the old hats chase off newbies. Otherwise Id have been run out of Dodge long before reaching the post count I've achieved. It's not a global pandemic problem. Sometimes people have to own their responsibility. The OP of the thread that spawned this thread is a brilliant example. He didn't get all butthurt and forum nanny on everyone. He came back and in my eyes redeemed himself x1000. Not that he needed redemption or anything, but I believe in giving credit where credit is due.

I've honestly had a pretty damned good experience here so far...even WITH the rumors of meanie forum regulars. I've participated in threads, had some disagree with what Ive said, and I don't feel that was held against me or blacklisted me with anyone here. Ultimately I am the one responsible for making or breaking my experience here. I'm an adult on an adult forum. It's up to me to act as such, rather than insist you all kiss my ass, coddle me, and give me teddy bears to soothe my hurt feelings.

There is never going to be a universal policy that will make things 100% ok for everyone. It's just not possible given the diversity of cultural, experience, ages, orientations, and every other possible combination that makes us all the forum community we are. There are always going to be sensitive types who want the world handed to them on a silk pillow being pulled by a team of soft and fuzzy teddy bears. But again, if this was as big a problem as some seem to think it is...wouldn't this forum have died out like the dinosaurs a long ass time ago?

< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 12/17/2013 2:48:40 PM >

(in reply to VideoAdminGamma)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:49:23 PM

Rawni

Posts: 1175
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Spiritedsub2

I too see the forums stagnating with long time posters leaving (sometimes of their own accord, sometimes booted) and the threads being mostly repetitive newbie questions and topics. I love Athena's suggestion for a newbie sticky where anyone, including interested mentors, can go.

Why ask only about how to retain new posters? What about retaining old timers who maybe get a little irascible and sarcastic at times, but who often have so much wisdom to offer and who provide some entertainment value to boot?

People have pointed out that the forums have some sadists participating and newbies could stand to develop a thicker skin. If the entire governing body of the forums also developed a thicker skin, we might not have the exodus of funny and interesting people we do now and maybe the forums wouldn't be as flat as they've been for some time.

(in reply to Spiritedsub2)

RE: What can we do to retain new posters? - 12/17/2013 2:49:48 PM

VideoAdminGamma

Posts: 2233
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: VideoAdminGamma
How to retain new posters is what we are trying to focus on in this topic.

Gamma, the current percentage of retention of new posters is fine, by which I mean it's within the range expected by any site with years of history and content. There isn't much of a knob to fine-tune to increase it, or it would be occurring at sites with far more resources. 5% or so is what reddit, StackExchange, etc. are dealing with. If anything, CM might be slightly ahead of that number. If that is really all you want to discuss here, then the thread is over for practical purposes.

That's great Red, this topic may be over for you, but not others that wish to stay on topic and contribute to the OP. I think your ideas are great, but they also deserve to be in a topic where they will be noticed more and not mixed. If you want staff feedback in the topic, then I will only comment back on things related to the OP.

Thanks for being a part of CollarMe,
Gamma

_____________________________

"The administration has the authority to handle situations in whatever manner they feel to be in the best interests of the forum, at that moment, in response to that event. "

http://www.collarchat.com/m_72/tm.htm

(in reply to RedMagic1)

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