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What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 3:29:17 PM

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Hi A/all.
i was wondering how others might define the terms submissive verus slave. One of the Dommes i have spoken to said it is really a matter of choice, mostly on the subs part. Perhaps it is how the subs sees themselves?
Just wanted some input if at all possible.
thanks

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 3:33:21 PM

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You will get many varieties of answers. Slaves are property... subs have free will... these are all ideas but are basically bollocks. Its a starting point sure... but if your Master calls you a slave, then thats what you are. If He says you are godiva... then thats what you are... if Mistress says you are a boy... thats what you are.

You are no more, and no less, then that which your Master or Mistress calls you. Other than that... chopse something and don't feel its a rigid label - you will evolve over time... just as words always do.

Peace and Rapture

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to toptobottom)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 3:34:54 PM

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Thank You so much for Your reply...It really cleared things up and makes alot of sense.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 3:37:48 PM

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I basically agree with Dark. In the pre internet days I saw slaves killed. They were property and nothing much else.
Today everyone calls themselves a slave. So the term is evolving for some and staying the same for other's.
I think the only time it could get dangerous is when you are paired with someone who doesn't have the same definition you happen to have.

For me..a slave has no free will..they are owned. A sub does. Yet a sub devotes their life to their dominant.

But again....everyones definition is different.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 3:38:26 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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http://www.collarchat.com/m_497775/mpage_1/key_submissive%252Cslave/tm.htm#497977
I'm new to this but...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_366860/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#366893
Difference bet/submission and slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_365776/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#366767
slub question

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281198/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#281512
difference between slave and submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_251014/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#251062
definition of "slave"

What's the difference between slaves and submissives?

Submissive or slave?

Slaves versus submissive

Submissive or slave? (2)

Submissive vs slave (2)

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to toptobottom)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 3:40:09 PM

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From: Domme Emeritus
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quote:

ORIGINAL: toptobottom

Hi A/all.
i was wondering how others might define the terms submissive verus slave. One of the Dommes i have spoken to said it is really a matter of choice, mostly on the subs part. Perhaps it is how the subs sees themselves?
Just wanted some input if at all possible.
thanks

I refer to my slave as "slave".. because that is how he sees himself. I never defined him. :)

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to toptobottom)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 3:40:57 PM

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The thing that makes me laugh is that people who are stepping through the crack in the cosmic egg into this new reality, one without society's approval or understanding and therefore without its controls, still seek un-amorphous, unambiguous definitions and rules.
I think that all bdsm terms and "rules" are open to interpretation by each of us.

Rosemary

(in reply to darkinshadows)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 3:41:34 PM

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From: New Hampshire
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To me if a sub agrees to be Collared then she becomes a "slave" subject to the will of her Master alone.
No Collar, no "slave"

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 4:04:39 PM

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So popeye would a submissive with a collar be considered a slave? oops this might be a thread hijack or a hostile takeover. lol

The reason for me asking is that on average 70% of the Dominants i have spoken with have said 'i would become their slave', my response of course was nope nope nope won't happen. i draw a line between submissive and slave at the empowerment of maintaining a degree of free will in my daily living. Hence, i will never be 'slave'.

{edit} free will = free choice = free reign, ect (all the same in my present day dictionary)

< Message edited by aleshaDreams -- 8/1/2006 4:07:35 PM >

(in reply to popeye1250)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 4:16:57 PM

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A slave is what it does, not what it would like to think it is.

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 4:17:59 PM

txpet

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i found your response bery interesting ... i am truly Master's slave as He is free to tell me anything at any time and i will obey ... however, that does not mean that i have no free will as Master does not micromanage .. occasionally He leaves me to my own devices for quite awhile ... while i do check in with Him and i do ask permission as the rules require, i go about my life and make decisions and pay bills and run errands and do as i wish .. this does not make me any less His slave as all this is as He desires
So, my will is not free, it is His but He requires me to exercise my own will for a majority of the time ... soooooo

_____________________________

Ken's dirty girl,
txpet jennie

(in reply to aleshaDreams)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 4:24:05 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: txpet

i found your response bery interesting ... i am truly Master's slave as He is free to tell me anything at any time and i will obey ... however, that does not mean that i have no free will as Master does not micromanage .. occasionally He leaves me to my own devices for quite awhile ... while i do check in with Him and i do ask permission as the rules require, i go about my life and make decisions and pay bills and run errands and do as i wish .. this does not make me any less His slave as all this is as He desires
So, my will is not free, it is His but He requires me to exercise my own will for a majority of the time ... soooooo

The most valued slaves in ancient times were those who accepted thier place, and could be trusted to do as told without fear of disobedience. These were seldom sold, for they had great value to thier owners. They also tended to merit better treatment, many were fine craftspeople, and thier work was much sought after.

Perhaps I seem to romanticise slavery, it was a very cruel institution for the most part. You will never see me defend it.

I only point out that not all relations in it were abusive or degrading. Then as now, there were good owners and bad-the good ones treated thier servants well.

(in reply to txpet)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 4:38:29 PM

txpet

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::smile::
i found a compliment in that ...
i agree that those who are slaves in their being and kept as slaves by good owners were perhaps not in the worst situation possible ... i think that is what you said ::smile::

_____________________________

Ken's dirty girl,
txpet jennie

(in reply to Homestead)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 4:40:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: toptobottom

Hi A/all.
i was wondering how others might define the terms submissive verus slave.

When I first started in this life, the two terms were interchangable. There were no endless discussions on what each meant.

quote:

One of the Dommes i have spoken to said it is really a matter of choice, mostly on the subs part. Perhaps it is how the subs sees themselves?

I consider myself a submissive. I'm owned and collared (and married). Most would like to label me as a slave, I see no need to have that label. Mostly because I see a lot arrogance attached to that label which I feel is inappropriate coming from the bottom side of the relationship. I've named it "Uber Slave Syndrome".

So bottom line, label yourself as you see fit. Gracefully accept the title your Dominant gives you. But, for the love of cheese and crackers.....don't try to define someone else's labels.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to toptobottom)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 4:42:11 PM

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Let me put it this way. A servant I could leave to her own devices while away on business -and come back and find things in good order-including her own mental state. Or even impressively improved......

Has got to be the best of all.

And I am sure that opinion holds true today-or 1,000 years ago.

The best of slaves are, and were-far from fragile.

(in reply to txpet)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 5:10:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

http://www.collarchat.com/m_497775/mpage_1/key_submissive%252Cslave/tm.htm#497977
I'm new to this but...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_366860/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#366893
Difference bet/submission and slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_365776/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#366767
slub question

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281198/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#281512
difference between slave and submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_251014/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#251062
definition of "slave"

What's the difference between slaves and submissives?

Submissive or slave?

Slaves versus submissive

Submissive or slave? (2)

Submissive vs slave (2)

LA you are always so helpful with so many URL's - thanks a bunch!!

Sub4hire - "In the pre internet days I saw slaves killed. They were property and nothing much else." WHAT!?!?! Do you mean cyber killed??

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 6:03:14 PM

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As much as the chorus of subs having free will and slaves being property seems to echo, bear in mind: ALL humans are endowed with free will. Being a slave does not mean remaining in an abusive or destructive relationship simply because you agreed to before it went sour.

Generally, submissives have more limits that slaves, and tend to be less 24/7, from what I've seen.

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 6:13:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: velvetears

Sub4hire - "In the pre internet days I saw slaves killed. They were property and nothing much else." WHAT!?!?! Do you mean cyber killed??

No, It means I was studying sexual dysfunction in school learning about the lifestyle at the time. Yes, it was considered a dysfunction back then. Times have evolved since then.
In any event I knew M/s couples. Yes, if you were in California right now I could take you to the cemetary to meet two of my good friends whose "masters/abusers" just happened to go too far in one of their daily beatings and just happened to kill them.
People were stupid back then too. One was an extremely good friend of mine at the time. In the hospital as a rib went through her lung for the final time. She told me if it was masters will then so be it. It was the destiny he chose for her.

That is how a slave thought back then. Complete and total devotion...never thinking of oneself. Only there to please their master.

You cannot kill someone on the internet when the internet was not available yet.

(in reply to velvetears)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 6:19:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire
No, It means I was studying sexual dysfunction in school learning about the lifestyle at the time. Yes, it was considered a dysfunction back then. Times have evolved since then.
In any event I knew M/s couples. Yes, if you were in California right now I could take you to the cemetary to meet two of my good friends whose "masters/abusers" just happened to go too far in one of their daily beatings and just happened to kill them.
People were stupid back then too. One was an extremely good friend of mine at the time. In the hospital as a rib went through her lung for the final time. She told me if it was masters will then so be it. It was the destiny he chose for her.

That is how a slave thought back then. Complete and total devotion...never thinking of oneself. Only there to please their master.

You cannot kill someone on the internet when the internet was not available yet.

Yikes and WOWOWOW.... also duh - you did say pre internet days - sorry a bit weary here today. Thank god times have changed!! Thats a bit too much "devotion" for me. Thanks for clarifying and sorry you lost good friends that way, must be very sad for you :-(

(in reply to sub4hire)

RE: What is the Difference? - 8/1/2006 7:45:31 PM

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Unfortunately as a society we face death daily. Some of us more than other's. It was sad. Today I still don't understand her mentality back then.
The one thing it has done to me permanently is jaded me on the word slave. I don't know a single person in real life who is a slave to that caliber.

(in reply to velvetears)

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