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Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 1:16:49 PM   
PrincessEllie


Posts: 287
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline
I was first diagnosed with mild Anxiety Disorder in my early teens, about a year or so after I learned I was a submissive. Specifically, I am mildly obsessive compulsive [OCD], I have mild general anxiety disorder [GAD], and I have medium panic disorder [PD].

Big confusing terms, right? OCD means I have certain rituals I must complete in different situations, for example: I must always set the table a certain way in a certain order. My panic disorder only shows up in high stress situations, when I am unable to complete an OCD ritual, and when someone does something I REALLY don't like. My OCD is with small rituals that are easy to finish and my PD usually stays on the downlow. I do have pretty strong panic attacks though, one time I accidently broke my toe because I was shaking so hard. But it's not so bad that I pass out like some people, but sometimes I do throw up. My general anxiety is always present in tiny amounts in the back of my mind, I jitter a lot and find concentrating on boring things really hard. Like my PD, certain uncomfortable situations will set me off to feel anxious and incapable of complying with certain things and situations. When forced to comply with anxious situations, a panic attack usually ensues.

My problem is only this, I have no idea what to do with BDSM if I were to have an attack. I fear I might have anxiety issues with things in the scene, random things, and I would cause problems for my Dom. A panic attack might ensue during a scene, maybe not because of the scene itself but because I was stressed or something. I would jitter and try and claw my skin off, hypervenehelate, and possibly vomit as a result of a panic attack during a scene. That sounds so awful and awkward for me, and I wouldn't want to let down my Dom either by being unable to do something or by messing up a scene.

I can deal with my anxiety during every day life pretty well. I've gotten used to the panic attacks and have learned to cope, but I fear that BDSM will cause me lots of stress [despite the fact that I love it] and would make my attacks much worse. I tried medication once, borrowed a few pills from a friend, and it worked pretty well in mellowing me out at that time in my life which was honestly like one giant subdrop.

Do you think if I explained it to a prospective Dom, they would understand and not force the issues that caused me trouble? Do you think trying meds for real on my own perscription would be a good idea? If you're a Dom/me, would you give imediate aftercare to a sub who had a panic attack? If a sub started panicking during a scene would you stop? If you're a sub, have you ever panicked in a scene? If so, how did you deal with it? Do you think this will effect my scene life a lot?


_____________________________

Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But whips and chains excite me
So tie me up
Or hold me down
And bite me baby, bite me!

http://www.cafepress.com/scenedayware
--Discreet BDSM day clothes--
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 1:21:45 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Have you done or are you doing anything to help you deal with this now in terms of cognitive behavioral therapy and/or medication?

Anyway, you have to treat it like any condition- know the symptoms, know the triggers, know the treatments.  Communicate it to them and work through it when it happens. 

If you have an attack, then you have an attack.  Just like you would anywhere.  Trust me, most people in the scene are on some sort of mood altering type of meds or treatment. 

Work on the source issue and how to mitigate the symptoms as much as possible.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_517295/mpage_2/key_compulsive/tm.htm#517508
perfectionist

http://www.collarchat.com/m_300695/mpage_1/key_bipolar/tm.htm#300695
bipolar again

http://www.collarchat.com/m_211689/mpage_1/key_bipolar/tm.htm#211689
the bipolar sub

http://www.collarchat.com/m_43341/mpage_1/key_bipolar/tm.htm#43341
mental health, self esteem and the doms responsibility

http://www.collarchat.com/m_652730/mpage_1/key_depression/tm.htm#652730
severe depression in subs

http://www.collarchat.com/m_530004/mpage_1/key_depression/tm.htm#530004
depression

http://www.collarchat.com/m_514787/mpage_1/key_depression/tm.htm#514787
bdsm and bipolar (depression) issues - compatibility?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_507289/mpage_1/key_depression/tm.htm#507289
depression in your life and play

http://www.collarchat.com/m_391455/mpage_1/key_depression/tm.htm#391455
Depression (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_257934/mpage_1/key_depression/tm.htm#257934
submissives with issues

http://www.collarchat.com/m_190987/mpage_1/key_depression/tm.htm#190987
depression in the lifestyle

http://www.collarchat.com/m_161175/mpage_1/key_depression/tm.htm#161175
depression and dominance


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PrincessEllie)
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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 1:27:19 PM   
PrincessEllie


Posts: 287
Joined: 11/30/2006
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Thanks for all of those links!

From what I've read, it sounds like I'll be needing more 'care' [and not just after] during scenes in the event that I get anxious.
I just hope I find a Dom who would understand that and actually stop a scene and crawl on top of me to stop the jitters and make sure I don't try and rip my skin off with my nails. Hugs do wonders for panic attacks, but I never ever get hugs when I panic...


_____________________________

Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But whips and chains excite me
So tie me up
Or hold me down
And bite me baby, bite me!

http://www.cafepress.com/scenedayware
--Discreet BDSM day clothes--

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 1:35:59 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Don't hope that you find a dom- wait until you meet a dom and decide for yourself that they are competent and compatible.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to PrincessEllie)
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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 3:00:27 PM   
nyrisa


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Ellie, your partner, whether for one hour at a play party, or for a lifetime, should always be made aware of any medical problems he/she might need to help you deal with. Just discuss the situation with him, and make sure he knows the warning signs, and what to do to help you during any episode. He would need to know how to handle hypoglycemia if you were a diabetic, a seizure if you were an epileptic, respiratory distress if you had asthma, or an anaphylactic allergic response if you were allergic to something. Then, when he adequately knows the situation, just carry on with the evening.

_____________________________

A true lady takes off her dignity with her clothes and does her whorish best. At other times you can be as modest and dignified as your persona requires. Robert Heinlein

The last thing I want to do is hurt you...but it is still on my list.

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 3:17:11 PM   
PrincessEllie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nyrisa

Ellie, your partner, whether for one hour at a play party, or for a lifetime, should always be made aware of any medical problems he/she might need to help you deal with. Just discuss the situation with him, and make sure he knows the warning signs, and what to do to help you during any episode. He would need to know how to handle hypoglycemia if you were a diabetic, a seizure if you were an epileptic, respiratory distress if you had asthma, or an anaphylactic allergic response if you were allergic to something. Then, when he adequately knows the situation, just carry on with the evening.

Thank you very much for the 'real situation' advice!


_____________________________

Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But whips and chains excite me
So tie me up
Or hold me down
And bite me baby, bite me!

http://www.cafepress.com/scenedayware
--Discreet BDSM day clothes--

(in reply to nyrisa)
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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 5:01:07 PM   
b12345


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Joined: 3/27/2007
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As previously stated one of the keys is to be well educated about the triggers, and if there are any pre-attack ques.  If you know these, and communicate clearly with a Dom I  would expect most to stop the scene and take whatever action is appropriate.  I certainly would, and would want to know in advance about the panic disorder, and discuss how to handle it, so I would know the signs of an attack coming on, and how to help you get through it safely if it were to happen.

If you are curious about medication, you should consult with a specialist, and discuss it as well as other treatment methods.  

B

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 5:32:13 PM   
mythi


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From: Naples, FL
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I also run the gamut of anxiety disorders with just a touch of OCD for flavah.   And while I really dont have 'scening' experience to draw some wisdom out of for you, as I've never 'bottomed', I can give you some standard advice about anxiety.

Even if you choose not to medicate, there are things you can do to minimize your chances of having a panic attack.  Try to exercise regularly.  It really helps keep all the stress hormones in check, produces calming brain chemicals, and  lets you burn off nervous energy.  Just be sure to find something you enjoy...walking, dancing, jumping jacks, hula hoop, running in place, punching bag, anything!  Also try to eat really well, avoid caffeine and high-sugar foods as much as possible, and get plenty of B vitamins and EFA's (Omega 3, 6, & 9)...if you dont like foods they're high in take supplements.  And of course, get plenty of sleep as well. 

Ever notice how this is like the magic trilogy of self-care for just about any ailment? lol

_____________________________

“The truth doesn’t change based on our ability to stomach it.”
Flannery O’Connor

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 6:30:45 PM   
starDF


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Hi PrincessEllie -

I have also been diagnosed with Clinical Depression, Social Anxiety Disorder, Seasonal Affective Disorder and slight OCD and Panic Disorders.  I have been in and out of therapy for about 13 years and medicated on and off for about 8 years.  Both have helped and I still require medication at times depending on the situations.

As a slave, my Master is well aware of what i face and has helped me deal with it and work with it.  It's not easy for anyone to cope with but it can be done.  To answer your specific questions:

Do you think if I explained it to a prospective Dom, they would understand and not force the issues that caused me trouble?  - If they don't understand help them understand.  If they are not willing to understand, they aren't worth it in my opinion.

Do you think trying meds for real on my own perscription would be a good idea?
There is nothing wrong with trying meds.  It helps me especially in social situations (basically, i can't handle crowds or walk into crowded places alone).  Seeing a therapist will help determine if they will help you

 If you're a sub, have you ever panicked in a scene? If so, how did you deal with it? Do you think this will effect my scene life a lot? - I'll sum these up together.  Yes, i have had a panic attack during a scene.  The scene was stopped immediately, Master cared for me, we talked about it and went on socializing for the evening.  We also talked about later when i was calmer.  I felt guilty, ashamed, sad and many other emotions from letting him down and not playing that night, but He was understanding and after we talked about it all we moved on, and played another night. My guess would be it won't affect your scene life a lot, but it may at times cause some issues that need to be delt with.

i hope some of this helps a little.  Feel free to message me if you want to discuss it in more detail. 

Darkness Fallen's star

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/16/2007 7:47:49 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

My problem is only this, I have no idea what to do with BDSM if I were to have an attack. I fear I might have anxiety issues with things in the scene, random things, and I would cause problems for my Dom. A panic attack might ensue during a scene, maybe not because of the scene itself but because I was stressed or something. I would jitter and try and claw my skin off, hypervenehelate, and possibly vomit as a result of a panic attack during a scene. That sounds so awful and awkward for me, and I wouldn't want to let down my Dom either by being unable to do something or by messing up a scene.


I have had panic attacks, hyperventilating and such. It never crossed my mind that I might panic in a scene, or if I did that there would be no way to stop it. I had a pretty good handle on my panic before I met my Daddy, and the first time he saw me talk myself out of a panic attack was last summer. He saw me sit on the edge of his bed and have a literal conversation with myself on how losing my ID was not that big of a deal, and it would be ok. He then told me how impressed and proud he was of me for being able to do what he witnessed... because at that point I was on my way to full blown panic and I turned it around.

He knew I was on my way to panic because of my physical symptoms, my breathing was rapid and shallow, my pupils dilated, I paced back and forth like a caged animal. When he told me how he knew I was panicking I realized that if it ever happened that I actually did panic I was safe with him. I have not had another panic attack. I am excitable, gregarious, I speak quickly.... and he will remind me to "slow down", because he does not want the excitement to turn into something else.

I think it is important that a dominant understand what PD is, what the symptoms are, if they have a submissive with this problem. It is not their responsibility to shelter the submissive from their panic, but they can help clue them in when they see it manifesting before their eyes, and instill pride in their submissive when they are able to avert a panic attack. It gave me great pride to have him acknowledge how I was able to take control over myself and control my panic instead of it controlling me.

I found one book very helpful to me in overcoming this problem... it is called from panic to power
 
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060927585/bookstorenow57-20



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/17/2007 8:16:16 AM   
PrincessEllie


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Thank you very much B12345, mythi, starDF, and juliaoceania. Also a specific very big thank you for those who gave answers from their real life experience with anxiety disorders and bdsm.

juliaoceania, I practice a method of calming myself where I count backwards from 7, then six, then five and so on and so forth. I feel that in a situation where I began to panic, if my Dom stopped the scene and let me do this I could handle my panic. It might not work though, depending on how stressed I am, but I think that it would work enough during a scene if my Dom was there to help me get down from it in the instance that I really panicked badly. I will also look for that book next time I am at the bookstore.


_____________________________

Sticks and stones
May break my bones
But whips and chains excite me
So tie me up
Or hold me down
And bite me baby, bite me!

http://www.cafepress.com/scenedayware
--Discreet BDSM day clothes--

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/17/2007 12:04:11 PM   
adoracat


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Joined: 2/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PrincessEllie

Thank you very much B12345, mythi, starDF, and juliaoceania. Also a specific very big thank you for those who gave answers from their real life experience with anxiety disorders and bdsm.

juliaoceania, I practice a method of calming myself where I count backwards from 7, then six, then five and so on and so forth. I feel that in a situation where I began to panic, if my Dom stopped the scene and let me do this I could handle my panic. It might not work though, depending on how stressed I am, but I think that it would work enough during a scene if my Dom was there to help me get down from it in the instance that I really panicked badly. I will also look for that book next time I am at the bookstore.



make sure you tell your Dom what your coping method is.  good Dominants listen to their submissives and take care of them.

i have issues, and Sir listened.  watching someone having seizures isnt pleasant...but Sir reacted exactly as my husband has learned to...without having to be told.  so yes, a caring loving Dominant will listen to your concerns and help you work through them.

caring and loving of course....is a YMMV opinion.

kitten, who knows that not all submissives wish to have a Dominant who loves them

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/18/2007 9:40:03 AM   
WayHome


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Lots of good advice so far. The wrong Dom could be a nightmare but the right Dom might be able to help you a lot, espcially with the panic attacks. Taking them on with sensible cognitive and behavioral therapy techniques could be very useful and also very satisfying for certain Dominants. Be sure you communicate the issues throughly in advance and if he/she doesn't seem to be understanding or sufficiently acknowledging the issues, just be patient and wait for someone else to come along.

On the medical side, it doesn't sound like you have had much treatment. I would suggest a good counselor (preferably with a behavioral therapy focus) as well as a good MD. From the sounds of it you might want to ask about Buspar. I believe this drug is highly underrated for people like you. Most antianxiety meds are basically just sedatives and can lead to all sorts of problems including abuse and addiction which is why Docs are often hesitant to prescribe for chronic use. But Buspar is completely different. It has no abuse or recreational potential at all, is taken every day and works in the long term, is non-sedating, and can be very effective for GAD, OCD, and for reducing the frequency of panic attacks. I have seen this drug completely transform people's lives (in a GOOD way). Ask your doctor about it.

Leto

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/18/2007 9:56:22 AM   
ChocolateMaster


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Well, anxiety is a rotten thing to have, I know this speaking from experience. And WayHome is right, a good headshrinker can go a long long way. I also suffer from PTSS from watching my grandmother pass on (Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome). If a Dominant dosen't understand, a good Dominant will find a way to understand what you are going thruogh. Also yes drugs like Buspar and Zoloft can really help 10 fold with your anxiety and depression. Both are proven non-addictive as been stated earlier.  And I beleive any good Dominant would give their one aftercare if they had a panic attack, I would (and have). Hell any worth their weight in honor would do such a thing.

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/18/2007 12:24:33 PM   
mnottertail


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One other thing, some parts of OCD and Anxiety disorders fit really well into a slave's being.

Ron

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/18/2007 6:28:29 PM   
Termyn8or


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Need to define some terms here. There are different levels of OCD. Just what are your rituals ?

Mild OCD could be described as pet peeves. I have them. First of all I always put my right shoe on first, and it is a sock and a shoe. There is no logical reason for this, so it qualifies, but it is very mild. Another thing I do not do is to set the presets on my car radio. I am adamant about it, someone set them on my old car and if I find out who it was there will be cosequenses. Nothing violent but I would require them pull the fuse to get the factory defaults back, and then set the clock EXACTLY how it was set before.

So is that OCD ? It is totally irrational, has no basis in logic, and I am pretty adamant about it. To put it in perspective, what of one who washes their hands excessively ? There could be a sense in that person's brain that they don't have any faith in their immune system.

So first of all, let's start at the beginning, not being able to complete the ritual causes the attack so analyze the behaviour ands try to think of any possible reason for it. You also live in a world where there are terrorist attacks etc., so even agoraphobia can be deemed rational, if that is the rationale.

So what I am trying to say is that paranoids have real enemies sometimes. The first step is to figure out WHY you need to do these things. The first part of that step is to identify the behavior, and start to explore exactly what parts of the ritual are the most important to you.

Some of these things are rational almost. I work on electronics equipment and I have a few there too. There is one plug that needs to unplugged FIRST before another or you run the risk of causing $200-$1,500 damage. Is that irrstional ? At that point I guess I am afraid of losing my job, or at least my status of competency. This would be an aneathma to me.

If you don't want to reveal your rituals in the forum you can get me on mail. Right now people are showing up so I need to wrap up for now.

To introduce the next step is to realize that nobody can make you feel anything. You make yourself feel emotions. I can prove it with words, I need no cites or links to do so. I will do it simply by example, taking facts already known, just taking a certain set of facts as a whole, it proves the point.

Once you accept that, the panic attacks can be dealt with. Baby steps, one at a time. I can post that next, but the first step is still first. Crawl, then walk.

If you really need meds, fine, but it is VERY desirable to avoid resorting to them. If the process starts inside and the solution comes from inside it is pretty much permanent.

I have fought something alot worse, rage. I won for like a decade, and relapsed a couple weeks ago. The way that affected me was profound, I thought I had devolved.

If you learn and grow your way out of this, a relapse would make you feel the same way. One hell of an incentive. But it generally won't happen because you forgot to go to the drugstore.

There are techniques. I'll tell you, but not tonight, the party has started and I am being rude.

I'll be ba-a-ack

T

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 5/18/2007 7:59:06 PM   
Celeste43


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I have anxiety disorder. The main thing I have learned is that I have to tell him how I feel. How this works out between us is that I sometimes need to beg off things. So he can't just say that he's going to tie me up and I need to put up and shut up because I will melt down during the scene. He knows that when I say I can't deal with scening I'm being honest, not manipulative.

One thing I've noticed is that I need to pay close attention to how I feel physically. A difficult scene can cause an anxiety attack if I'm slightly under the weather whereas I can make it through if physically I'm okay. So I need to check in with my body, have I eaten yet that day, am I already thirsty, do I feel like I'm coming down with a cold, am I running on less than a full night's sleep, etc.

In addition, stressful things are tough for me to force myself to accomplish so he has simply taken over for me when I get overstressed. He won't demand I just do it because I can't. He'll allow me to break things into several small steps and do just one a day if that's all I can handle.

Knowing that he won't demand stuff I'm not capable of allows me to trust him more and give him more control. If this means we don't play at all one month and we do it daily for two weeks after, so be it. That's minor compared to keeping a relationship strong. But I'm not a good fit for the obedience minded types simply because I can't always obey. He's more interested in my heart and soul and mind than in surface obedience. As such, I can more easily give him what he wants.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 6/5/2007 5:55:47 AM   
SeeksOnlyOne


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panic attacks are horrible....the anticipation of having one is as bad or worse....i was completely homebound by them in the early 90's and would not wish them on my worst enemy.
 
the way i learned to control them was as follows....first i called  911 on july 4, 1990, and was convinced i was dying.  i felt as if i were outside my self, that disconnected feeling that someone who has never experienced it would call wacko sounding.
 
luckily, the dr. who met me at er was awesome, and after a few questions and an exam informed me i was having a panic attack.  i informed him he was a damn quack, i was dying, and i wanted a new dr.  i was given a shot and an rx, and then he gave me the name of a local support group called "power over panic".  it took me 3 months to get the nerve to attend but when i did i was amazed.
 
there was a room full of folks from all walks of life-all looked completely normal and sane, and ALL described the same feelings i had been having.  i went to that group for over 2 years, took meds for a little bit over a year, and learned so may coping techniques.         
 
picture a  stop sign in your head and internally scream stop this.....wear a  thick rubberband on your wrist and pop it hard when you feel panic coming on, for some meditation worked(although for me loud rock n roll is more calming).
 
the one thing i know is that the only way to defeat this demon is to challenge it.  i remember the first time i took a road trip-white knuckled, sweating, terrified-and the thought that if i die, i will die trying.  when i reached my destination i was so proud and calm.  make your self go outside your comfort zone daily.  know that if you panic and have to leave that cart of  groceries in the store and run home, the world doesnt end.
 
i have been off meds for 15 years (daily ones), and have not had a full blown panic attack in 10 or so.  if i feel the anxiety mounting, i  talk to someone.  you will be amazed when you begin talking about this and get over the shame how many of your  friends have had panic attacks.
 
all that said-i  also havent been without  xanax in my purse for 10 years....and i am not afraid to use one if i need it.
 
as for panic while in a scene-i do not think it is possible for that  to happen. one thing i have discovered is the body is only capable of handling one  extreme emotion at a time(for me anyhow).  at times of grief or stress, when looking back and thinking i should of had panic then, it just never happened.            
 
i definately  would be sure your dom knew about your panic....just knowing someone knows and you can say im feeling anxious is, in its self, soothing.  the times i have had the hardest time is when i tried to hide it.  
i wonder if anyone makes a bumper sticker that says  "i brake for panic attacks"
 
good luck and always remember-although this stuff can make you feel like youre dying, no one has ever died from it.                                                                 
 
 

_____________________________

it aint no good til it hurts just a little bit....jimmy somerville

in those moments of solitude, does everyone sometimes think they are insane? or is it just me?

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RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 6/5/2007 2:33:05 PM   
Aswad


Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WayHome

Taking them on with sensible cognitive and behavioral therapy techniques could be very useful and also very satisfying for certain Dominants.


I would not advocate trying that without being very confident about the Dom, unless the Dom is a certified and licenced mental health professional.

Been there, done that. In a good way, with good results.

I was surprised to learn that my way of dealing with people in that regard had been codified. They call it "cognitive behavioural therapy", and it's the only thing shown to be more effective (in the general case) than an attentive listener, whether a priest, doctor or good friend. I just call it "helping people".

I've also seen Doms whose notions about therapy are horrifically bad, however. Some to the point where I'd seriously consider having the sub go see Hannibal Lecter instead, with him being the one tied up, of course. And that's semi-joking, of course. But there are some who want to "get at" their subs mental problems who are royal screwups waiting to happen in someone's head.

Not saying one Dom or the other is in either camp, or that it has to be a bad idea.

Just be extra careful.

quote:

From the sounds of it you might want to ask about Buspar. I believe this drug is highly underrated for people like you.


The clinical trials would not appear to bear you out on that, at least not so much as to be noteworthy.

quote:

Most antianxiety meds are basically just sedatives and can lead to all sorts of problems including abuse and addiction which is why Docs are often hesitant to prescribe for chronic use.


No, most antianxiety meds are not that. And the most commonly used approach is to use an SSRI (e.g. citalopram, fluoxetine, etc.) or a so-called 5HT2-antagonist, such as mirtazapine (Remeron), or both in combination.

The systems involved in the actions of antianxiety meds are the serotonergic, dopaminergic and GABAergic systems. Some act on one, some on two, some on all.

Those who act predominantly on the GABAergic system can be addictive, are usually a bit sedating (at least at first), and have some abuse potential (what doesn't? sugar does, as does chocolate, and love.). These are the benzodiazepines, the barbiturates, and alcohol.

The most common ones are those who act only on the serotonergic system.

Some work on the dopaminergic system, which may indicate mild abuse potential in some people, but is rarely a problem when there is no prior history of abuse and addiction. These are less commonly used due to stigma, though.

The most effective long-term medication against anxiety disorders, period, is phenelzine (Nardil). It comes with dietary restrictions, though. But at the right dose, it will usually kill anxiety without any intolerable side-effects. There is a reason they keep producing it for the 15.000 people (almost nothing, for a pharma company) who use it, and that the hospitals have stockpiles (around here, they have literally kilograms of the stuff) of it: if the pharma companies stopped making it, the universities, hospitals and pharmacies would start synthesizing it themselves. It's not addictive, but the first two to four weeks starting up are a bit unpleasant, and it interacts with everything, so the docs have to go over any other meds you might want to take, including OTC stuff. Does the job, tho'.

(For the pharmacologically interested, it is a GABA-transaminase-inhibitor which is metabolized into a monoamineoxidase-inhibitor.)

As for panic attacks, the most effective thing I've found so far is buprenorphine, which is addictive, if used on a regular basis, but if the panic attacks occur that often, it's way better to use a long-term maintenance med and cut down on the short-term meds. The time from putting 0.1mg under your tongue until the panic attack is gone (as in, not in the least bit, and staying that way for about 12-48 hours, even if whatever triggered it remains) was, for nephandi, about 10 minutes, as I recall. After that, she gets a bit drowsy for 20 minutes (no biggie; could sleep if she wanted to, can stay awake and function well if she wants that), and then it's all fine again. About 30% of those who use it may experience some euphoria the first few times, however. More relevantly, though, perhaps, is that it's also a powerful painkiller. A 0.1mg dose (half a sublingual tab) will take away a light migraine or a cleanly broken bone, so further S&M doesn't work for the next 6-12 hours. The D/s works fine, though, as does the sex drive.

Normally, though, the docs will prefer to go the route of an SSRI or somesuch as a long-term therapy (often alongside CBT) and a benzodiazepine (like Xanax) for the breakthrough panic attacks.

quote:

But Buspar is completely different. It has no abuse or recreational potential at all, is taken every day and works in the long term, is non-sedating, and can be very effective for GAD, OCD, and for reducing the frequency of panic attacks. I have seen this drug completely transform people's lives (in a GOOD way).


Yup, it's completely different. In fact, it has very little potential at all, according to some studies. Suffice to say that the producer is not keen on comparing to active placebo any more, last I heard.

It does apparently have a little bit of effect, although I've never met anyone it worked for myself. Some will find their lives changed by it, though. All it takes, sometimes, is that extra attitude that "this will work out, I'm doing something about it now", or the externally induced confidence that allows one to risk a situation where the anxiety might be trigger, and discover that it doesn't that time, and thus start on a course of building one victory on the previous one, much in the style of CBT. In short, it is mostly equal to placebo, but with a slight edge.

Proper diet, exercise and cognitive behavioural therapy will generally give a better result, though.

(And, far be it from me to push the meds on anyone. I just happen to know that bit to a decent extent, so I share what I know. The CBT bits I just do; even having read the literature, it's hard to put it into words, since it was already tacit knowledge. Both are valid strategies, and I use either or both, depending on the person's preferences.)


_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do.
" -- Rorschack, Watchmen.


(in reply to WayHome)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Anxiety Disorder and BDSM-- What should I do? - 6/11/2007 1:08:41 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline
I am seriously against SSRIs and anything that even resembles them. I guess they are necessary for some, but overused.

That comes from my beliefs, and I believe that they are wrong to assume that these hormonal imbalances are causing the disorder, and they are wrong to reject the notion that the imbalances are caused by the disorder. But western medicine only treats symptom usually, so that is what we got.

Therapy with a psychologist, rather than a psychiatrist should always be tried first. It is my firm view that drugs should be the very last resort. They know full well the truth, but want to make money. Common sense, if you smack a guy upside his head you know he is going to have an increased level of adrenalin in his system. The same will happen if you shove a gun in his mouth, but the response is a bit different.

Our hormonal makeup is not simply the cause of our attitude, it is also the effect of our attitude. Adjusting it chemically is like putting a band-aid on a bullet wound. It is much better to get to the root of the problem.

Just what does the anxious person think is going to happen ? And why ? If this is not explored you might as well deliver a trailer full of drugs, and they may be dependent on the drugs for life. In my view, that is to be avoided at all cost.

Trying to keep my mind open, I do realize that some people have had really bad childhoods, including abandonment, and possibly a plethora of different abusive behavior. If the child was not made to feel secure, the adult will not feel secure. It really is a shame that alot of people have forgotten how to raise, nurture and teach children.

One must teach one's self. You get past it. You grow up. I can't think of any bigger impediment to that process than a chemical crutch. It's like giving crutches to a baby who is trying to learn to walk. Take that analogy with a grain of salt, it about what I can think up right now.

I have my own theories about anxiety. The sufferer lends more importance to what others think then what they think. The anxiety comes, by definition, when they think someone might hurt or abandon them because they do not please that person, or people. Usually unfounded and irrational, but sometimes it is true. Sometimes a person's performance or demeanor has a direct effect on their well being. That is called stress and we all get it. The anxiety is just stress on steroids. You might be under the gun at work to meet a deadline or whatever. Would drugs that make you not care be appropriate at that time ? I think not. Hell I could do that with a few beers, but that would be completely out of place.

That stress is your impetus to get the job done. How you handle it is another story. Are you going to get an ulcer or migraines over it, or are you going to deal with solving the problem, which is obviously best done by getting the job done. Or do you run for a bottle of pills ?

It is much better to treat the cause of the problem, which is certainly a lack of personal growth in certain areas. If you get through it you have a lasting permanent solution, a cure if you will. That word is not used much anymore, it is called treatment now. And medicine is now called medication.

To really work the problems through and do it without drugs is like (analogy) fixing an oil leak in your car, rather than putting oil in it all the time. Fixing it is way better, because what if you happen to be driving somewhere you can't get any oil ? Your car burns up and you need a new engine. If the leak is fixed, the outcome is different.

Believe me or not, but I speak from experience. Psychologically I used to be one of the most fucked up people you would come across. I have identified the root causes of this and was able to put it all behind me. I highly suggest that people try to do the same. The cure lasts.

T

(in reply to Aswad)
Profile   Post #: 20
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