What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (Full Version)

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Asako -> What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 2:52:28 PM)

I'm a little new to the lifestyle, and noticed the two options when filling out my profile.  What is the difference?



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 2:54:03 PM)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_586226/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#586267
Curious, sub v slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_515303/mpage_1/key_slave/tm.htm#515333
What is the difference?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308296/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#309867
sub or slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_342405/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#342794
~slave vs sub~

http://www.collarchat.com/m_410567/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#410982
slave or sub

http://www.collarchat.com/m_497775/mpage_1/key_submissive%252Cslave/tm.htm#497977
I'm new to this but...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_366860/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#366893
Difference bet/submission and slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_365776/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#366767
slub question

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281198/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#281512
difference between slave and submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_251014/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#251062
definition of "slave"

What's the difference between slaves and submissives?

Submissive or slave?

Slaves versus submissive

Submissive or slave? (2)

Submissive vs slave (2)



KnightofMists -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 2:55:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asako

I'm a little new to the lifestyle, and noticed the two options when filling out my profile.  What is the difference?


well one difference is that they are spelled differently... I am thinking that is about the only thing you will find any agreement on.



Rover -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 3:01:13 PM)

If you ever do find out the difference, and it actually makes sense, please do the favor of informing me as well. 
 
Best answer I can come up with is that different people derive pleasure from one term or the other, and it's simply a matter of personal preference.  No functional difference has ever risen beyond the level of erotic fiction (emphasis on fiction).
 
John



DivaDuchess -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 5:16:59 PM)

I've had people self identify with both.  Though two of my slaves thought along similar lines.  They both told me that the difference is the degree of 'personal' freedom.  A slave is owned ... a sub, is a role one chooses.




Rover -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 5:29:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DivaDuchess

A slave is owned ... a sub, is a role one chooses.



Many submissives would be offended by that notion.  It negates their innate submission as something that is external, and chosen, rather than internal and inherent. 
 
Personally, I consider such expressions as tacit attempts to portray slaves as "better" than submissives.
 
John



Level -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 6:08:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asako

I'm a little new to the lifestyle, and noticed the two options when filling out my profile.  What is the difference?


well one difference is that they are spelled differently... I am thinking that is about the only thing you will find any agreement on.


About as true a statement as you'll hear.



MagiksSlave -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 7:49:51 PM)

Difference between sub and slave?? Just the spelling!!!

Magik's slave



Mavis -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 8:09:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

Many submissives would be offended by that notion.  It negates their innate submission as something that is external, and chosen, rather than internal and inherent.  
 


Oh, i'd say pretty much sub, slave, pet, or toy would also say it's a "choice" rather than internal and inherant.

For some, it's inherant, for some not.   i'm not a "natural" submissive, or a "true sub"  but i am a slave by choice.   Now try to guess what that means in O/our context, and You'll win the brownie of the week. 

quote:

Personally, I consider such expressions as tacit attempts to portray slaves as "better" than submissives.

i used to feel that way too, that a lot of slaves pointed out how much deeper and stronger their commitments were than subs, and i say bunk.   my commitment is neither deeper nor stronger than the submissives i see.  we each make choices, and pass or fail within the boxes we live in, so hey.

Using one fairly common, but disagreed definition of submissive,-- the slave maintains negotiating rights, the slave votes once to stay, and once to leave--   For me, it's easier to make one choice one time.  If i had negotiating rights in all cases  i would spend my days negotiating.  Easier to not give me that inch, i will go for the mile. or three.



michaelGA2 -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 8:11:21 PM)

a sub can get away with alot more than a slave



Rover -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 8:39:46 PM)

"Oh, i'd say pretty much sub, slave, pet, or toy would also say it's a "choice" rather than internal and inherant.

For some, it's inherant, for some not.   i'm not a "natural" submissive, or a "true sub"  but i am a slave by choice.   Now try to guess what that means in O/our context, and You'll win the brownie of the week."
 
It's not my intention to offend you, or anyone else for that matter. But if submission is not something inherent (ie: something you are), how can it be anything other than role play (ie: something you do)? 
 
I think the answer to that will be rather instructive.
 
As for submissives maintaining "negotiating rights", who gave them that right?  What right does anyone have beyond what is agreed upon in their unique relationship? 
 
Personally, I would quickly show the door to any girl of mine that saw fit to become a "relationship trial lawyer". 
 
John



theRose4U -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 8:40:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asako

I'm a little new to the lifestyle, and noticed the two options when filling out my profile.  What is the difference?


well one difference is that they are spelled differently... I am thinking that is about the only thing you will find any agreement on.


Yup what he said. I was going to say the difference is whatever the dominant you choose tells you it is. The one that comes after will have a completely different set of rules. I say tomater you say tomato...except on Thursdays during a full moon.



Rover -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/11/2006 8:46:53 PM)

P.S. -  A submissive, like a slave, "gets away with" what their owner allows. 



Amaros -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/12/2006 8:32:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Asako

I'm a little new to the lifestyle, and noticed the two options when filling out my profile.  What is the difference?


Funny you should ask...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_604021/tm.htm



MissyRane -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/12/2006 8:36:22 AM)

I recommend putting a topic up "the difference between sub & slave" and top and dom and bottom and sub and slave etc... and make it stick at the top and post Lucky Albatross's lists on them these questions are really becoming kind of old..and tired..and they're asked twice a month or more often O.O



KeirasSecret -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/12/2006 9:09:20 AM)

Negotiating rights? When did this happen? I’ll be sure to tell Sir…no wait…I have a better idea. Would you please tell Him. I got in trouble yesterday and I’m still a little sore. Thanks.k



Mavis -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/12/2006 10:12:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

It's not my intention to offend you, or anyone else for that matter. But if submission is not something inherent (ie: something you are), how can it be anything other than role play (ie: something you do)?  


i have no problem with You calling it role-play if You wish. i also "role-play" being a mother, an employee, a wife.. this is just one more role i choose to play.   i don't say i was born to be a slave, that it's hard-wired within me,  it's a behavior i choose, and even then it's only played out within certain relationships in my life. 
 
quote:


As for submissives maintaining "negotiating rights", who gave them that right?  What right does anyone have beyond what is agreed upon in their unique relationship? 


Forgive please, i was assuming the reader would devine the definition i use (and yes, i know many don't accept that one, but it works for me and mine.)    "A submissive can negotiate for her needs and wants, the slave hands over to the Master the choosing of which wants to meet, and big M owns responsibility for meeting her "needs". 

example, a Dom might take no authority over sub in relation to subs career.  but a Master/Mistress might decide even IF slave has a career.  In any case, those things are really decided by the cpl and obviously not applied across the board, my statement was assuming the "rights" were conferred by negotiation at the outset.

quote:

 
Personally, I would quickly show the door to any girl of mine that saw fit to become a "relationship trial lawyer".  
 


Since entering either a D/s or M/s relationship does require negotiation at the outset, "relationship trial lawyer" is a fitting description of hammering out contractual agreements.   If the contract agreed to allows further negotiation, that role can be revisited.  If not, then yes, i understand what You mean,  Master doesn't tolerate my "but can i do that this afternoon instead?'  queries.  Which is why i said if it was allowed, i'd probably do it even more than i do, and i'm trying to learn not to!



zumala -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/12/2006 10:29:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

Oh, i'd say pretty much sub, slave, pet, or toy would also say it's a "choice" rather than internal and inherant.

For some, it's inherant, for some not.   i'm not a "natural" submissive, or a "true sub"  but i am a slave by choice.   Now try to guess what that means in O/our context, and You'll win the brownie of the week. 


From watching so many threads, chatting with folks, and thinking, I have come to the conclusion that there is very little difference between slave and submissive.  Both of them choose to enter into a relationship in which they submit themselves to another person.  As far as 'natural' or 'inherent' goes... If you didn't have anything compelling you, why would you choose to submit?  Apparently a submissive or slave has something inside of them that prompts them to seek a relationship in which they are able to take the role that they wish - that of the submissive. 
 
Slave or submissive - each individual relationship seems to vary.  Some submissives may even live under more strict situations than some slaves do.  I think the two terms are entirely a matter of opinion, and thus will always spark debates when people are certain that a 'slave' or a 'submissive' is a certain thing.
 
Ah, well.  [:D]
 
zuma



Mavis -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/12/2006 11:02:41 AM)

Zumala, exactly on all points.  That's why i say just because i call myself a slave, it's in no way claiming a different/ better/ more advanced level of submission or surrender than one using other terms.  It's the term Master choose to define my role differently from His submissive, who has a lot more autonomy as far as His directives go, and a lot more input.  That's O/our gig, that difference only works in my little world, and i don't expect it to fit O/others.  and for that matter, i think she has more depth in her service, i don't have to do the grunt-work like housekeeping.  my job is fluff compared to hers!

as far as compelling,  i wanted to have kids, i had easy births, some would say i was born to be a mother.  but i don't think it's inherant, it's just something i did.  and giving birth easily still says nothing about my ability to raise kids properly.  i might have really skrewed them up.

The thing about "natural slave" or "natural submissive"  does crack me up.  There are many that believe it is an inborn trait and they can do nothing but submit in any relationship they have.  Ok...   If submissive is your default state, what exactly are you "surrendering"?   It's like putting the brakes on when you're already stopped.   <quizical look>   but like these things go, someday that concept will click with me, and in a few years, it might make perfect sense.  i'm not done knowing everything yet. lol



adaddysgirl -> RE: What's the difference between a slave and a submissive? (10/12/2006 11:14:56 AM)

This is not in response to any particular post.
 
As others, i too have read a zillion of these threads. But i guess what always irks me are the same two inane notions that 1) a sub isn't as committed as a slave and 2) a sub submits by the day. i find both of these ridiculous.

Who is really to say whom is more committed to whom in a relationship between 2 consenting adults? Are vanillas who gets married and promise to be together til death any less committed to their relationship than a D/s or M/s? i think not. We all just work within different parameters perhaps....but parameters nonetheless.

i like to take a classic example. Monogamy and being straight....both of which i am. When i first start talking with a potential partner, i ask lots of questions about lots of things...both vanilla and D/s. i want to know if we are looking for the same things in a partnership; if we share similar goals for the long term and not just for today.

i obviously look for a partner who is also monogamous (as perhaps most vanillas do). And when i go through all that and feel i have found a potentially suitable partner, then i commit to that person just as much as anyone in M/s, as i suspect most subs do as well.

Now do i submit by the day? Oh hell no! i don't wake up in the morning and think "well maybe today i won't submit" or "maybe today i won't do the chores i'm supposed to do." No, it isn't like that at all.

For me, the roles and expectations are established right at the beginning. BUT...where renegotiation (for lack of a better term) comes in is when one changes and perhaps needs something more than the partner feels comfortable with or feels able to agree to. Again, i'll use monogamy as an example.

If after 10 years of marriage a husband decides he is bored with his wife and wants to start swinging, she then has to make the decision to stay in the marriage or not. Yes, she is committed to the relationship but this is not the same person she committed to.

And it would be the same for me if i were with a dom who proclaimed monogamy at the beginning of the relationship then changed his mind to include others in some fashion. Sorry, he was not who i thought he was. Therefore, i am not bound to that partnership if i do not want to be.

How many times have i heard slaves say their Master wanted to bring another into the relationship, either one other or perhaps as poly? And the slave says she is both straight and monogamous and doesn't know if she can deal with that? i see that this has resulted in either the slave saying "no way", or she tries it and either stays with it or doesn't. i guess that all depends on the individual.

And a slave only submits once? Hogwash! We are humans and i think that only lasts until something is introduced into the relationship that is unbearable to one of the partners....and again, that may differ from person to person. A Master may one day decide he wants his slave to be his toilet and one slave may agree, and another may not be able to.

We all know wives who have stayed in physically abusive relationships for their own reasons (their vows, kids, not having another place to go, lack of finances...whatever). Oh yes, they may be committed but where does common sense come into play? Just like supposedly a slave would be able to leave if she somehow felt in danger with her Master. There ya go....there's your unbearable situation (and a wise decision as well).

Now of course you will still have the slave who will deny any of this...and the one that will say "i don't question anything....i just obey....but i am not a doormat".

So my next question would be....what is the difference between a slave and a doormat? That one has always eluded me.

Daddysgirl



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