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Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 6:38:41 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

In reading some of the various active threads, I sense an inability or aversion on the part of some people to demonstrate (at least publicly) that they have actual "feelings" (love, perhaps?) for their property. As if doing so somehow negates their status as property.

Is this just whistling past the graveyard, pretending feelings don't exist?
Does the acceptance of feelings detract from the enjoyment of your ownership, or service?
Is it online posturing?
Is it genuine?
Is "love" incompatible with ownership?
Or is it something else?

Looking forward to your comments.

John

< Message edited by Rover -- 10/13/2006 6:39:51 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 6:45:34 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I feel that love is not a necessary requirement. I have a journal entry on my profile discussing this topic and how I view it. Love is wonderful, but for me it's been a rarity. I don't need to love or be loved in order to be successful in my submission. I know though, that many seem to need it. And I question how they begin to submit, early in a relationship, before there is love if they claim to be unable to submit without love. It confuses me.

spelling edit

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 10/13/2006 6:46:19 AM >

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 2

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 6:58:30 AM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Alot feel love may interfere with the relationship. Master and myself love each other and it never interferes with obedience, discipline etc. Some just want casual play and love would not be a priority for them. Its hard for me to give so much of myself to someone without having some type of loving feelings.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 3

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:04:12 AM

Rover

Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

Ok, before this goes to far I want to stipulate that there are MANY power exchange relationships that don't involve love. So those feelings don't have to rise to the level of love. But they are feelings nonetheless. Actual feelings, caring, etc.

Capiche?

John

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 4

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:07:24 AM

WhiteRadiance

Posts: 247
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

Hey Rover

I wonder what threads you read. While I do not think that everyone loves their subs, I would hope that the majority of dom/mes have at least some affection for them.
I think though, that sex and sexuality-to some- has become a thing that is detached from the person. It seems to me that many acts are done to produce personal sexual satisfaction, and the method by which it comes is not important. If the method is the use of a person who becomes and object, and there are no emotions involved, it is still rewarding on the basic carnal level. Apparently it is rewarding to both parties, if they agree upon the activity.

There are those who want to have more than that which is on the carnal level, but not everyone does.

Of course love is compatible with ownership. I love my slave. I have a couple of others whom I respect and think highly of, and there are those whom I use for my amusement. I like them all, and the circumstance of the relationship, the chemistry that is there, as well as the needs we have- are addressed in each instance.

In order for certain people to be fulfilled they need love. Others do not. Both types exist.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

In reading some of the various active threads, I sense an inability or aversion on the part of some people to demonstrate (at least publicly) that they have actual "feelings" (love, perhaps?) for their property. As if doing so somehow negates their status as property.

Is this just whistling past the graveyard, pretending feelings don't exist?
Does the acceptance of feelings detract from the enjoyment of your ownership, or service?
Is it online posturing?
Is it genuine?
Is "love" incompatible with ownership?
Or is it something else?

Looking forward to your comments.

John

< Message edited by WhiteRadiance -- 10/13/2006 7:09:57 AM >

_____________________________

Staci

The drop of rain makes a hole in a stone not by violence, but by often falling.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 5

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:15:03 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

Okay, should I clarify? I need to feel affection, and caring, and it needs to be mutual.

In my mind, I can see how love would both enhance and detract from an ownership relationship. And we've seen enough threads about those topics.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 6

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:15:41 AM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

In reading some of the various active threads, I sense an inability or aversion on the part of some people to demonstrate (at least publicly) that they have actual "feelings" (love, perhaps?) for their property. As if doing so somehow negates their status as property.

I have no problem demonstrating publicaly or privately that I love my pet. It doesnt diminish me as his Owner, nor does it change his position as pet and property. We are publicaly afectionate, or as far as he is comfortable with, and known to the general group of friends we share as Girlfriend/boyfriend as well as the lifestyle friendly friends who know what we truly are.

There are plenty of owners, however, who dont demonstrate their love for their property simply becasue they dont love them in that way. When was the last time you were overly afectoinate with your umbrella or briefcase when you were out and about with it? Some owners greatly enjoy their property's company and service, but the actual person means little more to them than a possession and is treated as such. For those submissives or slaves looking for just that sort of connection, it works out beautifully.

It all depends on the relationship you see. Its just as much online posturing to pretend to love your pet becasue thats what people expect to see as it would be to pretend not to. We dont tend to fake it, I dont much care personaly if anyone else aproves of my relationship with angel. He is mine, and aside from us no ones oppinions really count.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 7

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:19:05 AM

WindOWillow

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/12/2006
Status: offline

I am one of those submissive women who cannot actualize my submissive nature with another unless deep mutual love and affection is involved. That means that I'm not naturally submissive unless I'm inspired by my feelings for a man to submit to him.

I've experienced this twice, long term, one marriage. So I'm aware of how this works for me.

I guess it would equate with people in the "vanilla" world, (not fond of that term) who are not able to participate in casual sex.

I know of many who don't feel such a deep need for having feelings. It's more of a playful, casual encounter for them. As long as it's mutual, no harm.

I do wonder at times if people like myself are not the norm.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 8

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:19:55 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

I havent done any legitimate research on the subject, but it seems likely to me that the people who post with a "no feelings, slave-as-object-property-only" approach are most likely those whose BDSM experiences have been limited to fiction, their own fantasies, or interactions in an online-only context.

While I can imagine a submissive person desiring to experience that level of objectification for some purpose--perhaps some working-through of a feeling or idea or some working out of an experience such as guilt-- for a discrete, defined and limited experience, I would have to suspect that there would be some pathology present in a person who would thrive in a real-life, indefinite situation where their partner/owner maintained an emotionless orientation toward him or her as the norm.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 9

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:21:05 AM

ShiftedJewel

Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I think though, that sex and sexuality-to some- has become a thing that is detached from the person. It seems to me that many acts are done to produce personal sexual satisfaction, and the method by which it comes is not important. If the method is the use of a person who becomes and object, and there are no emotions involved, it is still rewarding on the basic carnal level. Apparently it is rewarding to both parties, if they agree upon the activity.

I have never seen sex as something that required an emotional attachment. But if there is that's an added perk. But to collar someone.. to take them as my own? There has to be a bond. I won't say that I would fall in love... but there has to be a sense of love for them and them for me. We demonstrate our feelings for twicehappy where ever we are. Even if it's something so simple as holding hands and amazingly enough, we rarely even get odd looks when the three of us walk into a store holding hands. I don't see that it in any way detracts from her being "property". And she is property, she knows that she is highly treasured, valuable and greatly loved property.

Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to WhiteRadiance)

Post #: 10

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:21:45 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

As you can see from this list, it's obviously an issue that MANY people find themselves grappling with. The truth is that there are a lot of slaves and masters out there who feel that DENIAL and SACRIFICE are what make Ms happen and get very conflicted when they want to be, you know, NICE to eachother and make things HAPPY- they view it as a lacking, a weakness, an insecurity.

So they make love the enemy, rather than come to terms with what they are experiencing as reality.

Have love or not in your relationship, that isn't the issue. But denying yourself the experience that you are having because you're afraid it will prevent you from being yourself- you might as well just go vanilla.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_609494/mpage_2/key_love/tm.htm#609934
Ownership and Love

http://www.collarchat.com/m_545462/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#545482
What does love got to do with it?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_538921/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#538965
The Loving Dom

http://www.collarchat.com/m_499831/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#499881
Don't fall in love with your dom

http://www.collarchat.com/m_477568/mpage_3/key_love/tm.htm#484997
How common is it to fall in love with a submissive or dominant?

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=423736&mpage=1&key=love&#423879
Love and Ms

http://www.collarchat.com/m_282567/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#282615
submissive/slave romantic love

http://www.collarchat.com/m_269031/mpage_1/key_love%252Csubmission/tm.htm#269120
Falling in love with Mistress

http://www.collarchat.com/m_248492/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#248492
true love in a relationship

http://www.collarchat.com/m_236486/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#236486
balancing commitment and love

http://www.collarchat.com/m_199915/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#199915
love in bdsm

http://www.collarchat.com/m_166085/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#166085
love and D/s

http://www.collarchat.com/m_65043/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#65043
love and bdsm (the unfettered heart)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_150281/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#150281
Is it normal to fall in love with your dom during training?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_125880/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#125880
not allowed to love him, what do I do?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_119832/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#119832
being owned or being loved

http://www.collarchat.com/m_97124/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#97124
subs/masochists and love

http://www.collarchat.com/m_31285/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#31285
can love get in the way?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_14998/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#14998
love in d/s

http://www.collarchat.com/m_2491/mpage_1/key_love/tm.htm#2491
is love important in a relationship?

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 11

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:22:20 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

And we've seen enough threads about those topics.

Aw, come on Katy. There's always room for one more thread about LOVE.
Or was that "one more thread about DEFINITIONS."?
Or was that "Jello"?

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 12

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:26:33 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I'd rather talk about candy corn....the PUMPKIN candy corn. It's Friday the 13th!

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to justheather)

Post #: 13

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:28:51 AM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rover

In reading some of the various active threads, I sense an inability or aversion on the part of some people to demonstrate (at least publicly) that they have actual "feelings" (love, perhaps?) for their property. As if doing so somehow negates their status as property.

Is this just whistling past the graveyard, pretending feelings don't exist?
Does the acceptance of feelings detract from the enjoyment of your ownership, or service?
Is it online posturing?
Is it genuine?
Is "love" incompatible with ownership?
Or is it something else?

Looking forward to your comments.

John

I've seen a couple of real-life instances of this: in one case, the dominant really did love her male submissive but in public, you would not have known it. At home or among close friends, it was evident...at the club, it was not. When I spoke to her about this, she felt that the way she acted when she was at home or among close friends would be viewed as weakness or a defect in her M/s relationship by others in public. Led to a discussion of whether or not others' thoughts should matter so much but no resolution.

Now, as to the question of whether or not love has to be involved for submission to occur: I believe that submission should be able to occur without there being love present. Especially in those who state that submission is a need for them...that they have to submit in order to feel completely fulfilled. Seems to me then that their "strings" of submission should respond to the hand of one who strikes the proper chord on those strings through his/her dominance. Now, that may involve liking someone, even caring about someone but not necessarily loving them.

There are submissives who will not submit fully without being in love with someone. I don't quite understand that...much like KatyLied does not...but I respect their right to do it in that manner; though, in all honesty, I've noted that there have been many threads wherein submissives noted the difficulty of finding the One that they could both love and therefore, submit to.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 14

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:30:01 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied
It's Friday the 13th!

Is that the one with Jason or Michael?
It's Jason, right?
Ok, so we stay away from campgrounds and awkward sex with people in their late twenties pretending to be teen camp counselors and we are safe.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 15

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:41:11 AM

cloudboy

Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline

That's not true, I absolutely do love my 125 Motor Scooter and its titled in my name too.

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 16

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:51:03 AM

WindOWillow

Posts: 18
Joined: 8/12/2006
Status: offline

Creative,

I do understand why others, especially those who don't require love in order to submit/dominate another, have difficulty understanding people who do need a caring, loving, committed relationship prior to submitting.

It's cool. It's okay to have different ways of navigating this realm.

My personal internal make-up just doesn't allow me to become physically/emotionally intimate with a man unless there is mutual love.

Now, as far as having difficulty finding the "One". I don't think that submissives are holding out stubbornly sseeking some sort of fantasy, Fabio, romance book Dominant. Some people are more sensitive than others when it comes to who they wish to be vulnerable and open with. For me, that's the crux of submission. Being vulnerable. Trust. Giving of myself.

Personally, I'm more content not actualizing my submission rather than being with someone who is unable to love me and vice versa. It's the ultimate in unfulfillment.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)

Post #: 17

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:54:16 AM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

I do understand why others, especially those who don't require love in order to submit/dominate another, have difficulty understanding people who do need a caring, loving, committed relationship prior to submitting.

Here's the part that confuses me. During courtship, before you are "in love", are you expected to demonstrate submission? Or do you not enter into any D/s until after love is there? Is the submission you demonstrate at that point lesser than the submission you demonstrate when you are in love? Is it less fulfilling or less worthy? Or do you fall in love at first sight?

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to WindOWillow)

Post #: 18

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:55:49 AM

mnottertail

Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

Oh, Cwist!!! it invawiably comes down to twue, don't it?

Mistew Wogews:

Can you say MIGWAINE? Suwe you can!!!!

Won

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 19

RE: Loving Your Property - 10/13/2006 7:58:02 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

I am one of those weird people that is not overly fond of people in general. I love my alone time.

For me to have someone in my home, spend intimate time with them on a daily basis, deal with all the little annoyances that comes with living with someone, I HAVE to love them. There has to be some sort of really strong postitive energy flow going on, without love I don't have that. Granted, it may not be passionate romantic love but love none the less.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Rover)

Post #: 20

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