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sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 11:53:17 AM

Master96

Posts: 593
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline

I just came across a definition of submissive and slave on the internet.

sub: DOES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

slave: BECOMES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

Now, if you agree with this. Does that mean subs are pretending. And slaves just lost their identity?

PS. I can give you the link from which I found those definitions.

_____________________________

Master96,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

Post #: 1

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 12:04:20 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Master96

I just came across a definition of submissive and slave on the internet.

sub: DOES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

slave: BECOMES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

Now, if you agree with this. Does that mean subs are pretending. And slaves just lost their identity?

PS. I can give you the link from which I found those definitions.

Considering that slaves also do what their mastets want, that subs become what their masters want, that masters can often do what their subs/slaves want and become what their subs/slaves want, it doesn't seem very useful as a definition.

Becoming a new person doesn't mean you lose your identity, doing something and not being it doesn't mean you're necessarily pretending, it just means you haven't internalized it. There are plenty of slaves who follow orders they do not at all desire or want or would do if unowned.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_586226/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#586267
Curious, sub v slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_515303/mpage_1/key_slave/tm.htm#515333
What is the difference?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_308296/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#309867
sub or slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_342405/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#342794
~slave vs sub~

http://www.collarchat.com/m_410567/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#410982
slave or sub

http://www.collarchat.com/m_497775/mpage_1/key_submissive%252Cslave/tm.htm#497977
I'm new to this but...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_366860/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#366893
Difference bet/submission and slave?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_365776/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#366767
slub question

http://www.collarchat.com/m_281198/mpage_1/key_slave%252Csub/tm.htm#281512
difference between slave and submissive

http://www.collarchat.com/m_251014/mpage_1/key_sub%252Cslave/tm.htm#251062
definition of "slave"

What's the difference between slaves and submissives?

Submissive or slave?

Slaves versus submissive

Submissive or slave? (2)

Submissive vs slave (2)

_____________________________

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"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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Post #: 2

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 12:10:25 PM

slaveish

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline

Master and I were having a very similar discussion last night. He wants me to remain who I am because he likes me and we have a good friendship. I was going to go on to say what he wants me to "become" ... but ... ya know ... it would be mostly conjecture on my part. Good for another interesting discussion with him. ~smiling~

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 3

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 12:29:19 PM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I believe that you are going to find that everyone has their OWN definition of what a sub/slave is and that it is going to vary from person to person. As far as I know there is no "official" BDSM book that precisely states the terminology. That could be because these are relationships and as most of us know, with each person that means something different.

Are subs pretending? No, I would venture to say that the majority of them are not. In fact I would dare to say that most are just as dedicated as any slave. From my viewpoint the submissive has just chosen in this lifestyle to retain more rights than a slave would, but that doesn't make them anyless subsmissive.

Have slaves lost their identity? No perhaps in their slavery they found their identity. This doesn't make them codependent or less human, or more submissive than a sub. It just means they identify in a different way that suits their needs better.

As I have often said, whatever works for two people as long as they enjoy it, no one is getting hurt in a bad way and it meets their needs, who is anyone else to judge? We have enough labels and stress in life, why do we need more?

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to Master96)

Post #: 4

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 12:30:49 PM

Master96

Posts: 593
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline

Thanx LA

and I'm glad to hear about your interesting discussion with your Master slaveish

_____________________________

Master96,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

(in reply to slaveish)

Post #: 5

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 12:34:20 PM

Master96

Posts: 593
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline

Thanx Lashra, that is interesting

_____________________________

Master96,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

(in reply to Master96)

Post #: 6

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 12:51:25 PM

slavegirljoy

Posts: 1207
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: North Carolina, USA
Status: offline

i don't agree with these definitions. Of course, subs are not "pretending", unless they are enjoying the pleasure of playing out a fantasy and they are pretending to be a certain character, such as "Nurse Nancy" or "Loosie Lucy" for their Master. That can be very fun and very freeing. And, of course, slaves don't "lose" their identity. Their identity is that they are, a slave, along with everything else they might be, such as an employee, a boss, a teacher, a student, a mom, a daughter, etc.

i came to my Master just as i am. i didn't become anything new for Him. He chose me because i was already a slave that He wanted to own. And, i always do, have done, and will do what my Master wants.

Use these definitions, if you want, but i have my own definitions that work for me. This one doesn't work for me.

slave joy
Owed property of Master David

quote:

ORIGINAL: Master96

I just came across a definition of submissive and slave on the internet.

sub: DOES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

slave: BECOMES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

Now, if you agree with this. Does that mean subs are pretending. And slaves just lost their identity?

PS. I can give you the link from which I found those definitions.

(in reply to Master96)

Post #: 7

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 12:57:11 PM

WilliamWizer

Posts: 223
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Master96

I just came across a definition of submissive and slave on the internet.

sub: DOES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

slave: BECOMES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

Now, if you agree with this. Does that mean subs are pretending. And slaves just lost their identity?

PS. I can give you the link from which I found those definitions.

if you have time to search you will find more definitions that you can read in an entire life about those two terms. And none of them are 100% right or 100% wrong.
for some people they are sinonims. for others the diference is that a sub doesn't has a master yet and a slave is a sub that has a master. for others a slave is a sub in a 24/7 TPE relationship, for others...

and who cares about those labels?
who can say you are a sub and she is a slave?
only you and your dom/domme/master/misstress (or you and your sub/slave)

_____________________________

There's only two rules for a sub:
- she can do anything her Master didn't forbid her.
- she only needs to do what her Master told her to do.

(in reply to Master96)

Post #: 8

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 12:58:10 PM

sambamanslilgirl

Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

i believe it's a little of both.

Daddy has noticed changes about myself mentioning that i'm not the same person that He met 7 months ago. i'm becoming what He wants me to by doing what He wants. i haven't lost anything about myself as His daughter and submissive however i've gained more.

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(in reply to Master96)

Post #: 9

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 1:04:58 PM

bellanotte

Posts: 125
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Tornado Alley, USA
Status: offline

I don't think this is a particularly workable definition. That said, I also don't believe there IS a "definition" as such of either a sub or a slave. To me, they are not synonyms, yet they are not discrete identities, either. I would say it is more along the lines of a multifaceted continuum.... a slave may have more of A than a sub, but less of B, more of C and D, but less than F, and so on. And this changes with each individual and each relationship; the same woman may define herself as a submissive in one relationship and a slave in another with minimal behavior changes.

To me it's as much a philosophical distinction as any.

_____________________________

"The world is not yet exhausted; let me see something tomorrow which I never saw before." -Samuel Johnson

“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.” -Joseph Campbell

(in reply to Master96)

Post #: 10

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 1:16:27 PM

Master96

Posts: 593
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline

Well, I don't care about labels . But those two definitions made me think of how Tops and bottoms, whatever their labels were, develop through a relationship. Thanx guys for your valuable input. Please don't stop! I would like to hear/read more

_____________________________

Master96,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

(in reply to bellanotte)

Post #: 11

RE: Magradoodle vs Vangurdoodle - 3/22/2007 1:47:49 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

I think the label thing is getting a little over used. We need some new ones.

Slave-Vangurdoodle
Sub-magradoodle
Domme-Vangooderschmit
Dom- Mogo`ga`doodio

Feel free to toss out some more stuff you want labeled.

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to Master96)

Post #: 12

RE: Magradoodle vs Vangurdoodle - 3/22/2007 1:54:28 PM

bellanotte

Posts: 125
Joined: 4/27/2006
From: Tornado Alley, USA
Status: offline

I -do- love your posts, Troll

_____________________________

"The world is not yet exhausted; let me see something tomorrow which I never saw before." -Samuel Johnson

“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.” -Joseph Campbell

(in reply to FukinTroll)

Post #: 13

RE: Magradoodle vs Vangurdoodle - 3/22/2007 1:56:56 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

I think the label thing is getting a little over used. We need some new ones.

Slave-Vangurdoodle
Sub-magradoodle
Domme-Vangooderschmit
Dom- Mogo`ga`doodio

Feel free to toss out some more stuff you want labeled.

You forgot switch - Shoobeedoobeedoo

Or was that Mel Torme...

(in reply to FukinTroll)

Post #: 14

RE: sub vs slave - 3/22/2007 1:57:25 PM

sweetnurseBBW

Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Master96

I just came across a definition of submissive and slave on the internet.

sub: DOES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

slave: BECOMES what her/his Master/Mistress wants!

Now, if you agree with this. Does that mean subs are pretending. And slaves just lost their identity?

PS. I can give you the link from which I found those definitions.

This is one of a million defintions. This debate over subs and slaves has been way over done. The only defintion that matters is the one that works for that individual. Many people vanilla and lifestyle pretend and lose identity. To become a slave I did not lose my identity. I am the same I have always been. This is just another defintion to create another label that someone feels they have to have.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

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Post #: 15

RE: Magradoodle vs Vangurdoodle - 3/22/2007 1:57:54 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

Thankies doll.

Or is the magradoodle doll?

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to bellanotte)

Post #: 16

RE: Magradoodle vs Vangurdoodle - 3/22/2007 1:57:55 PM

Aileen68

Posts: 6091
Joined: 8/2/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
You forgot switch - Shoobeedoobeedoo

Or was that Mel Torme...

Heehee

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 17

RE: Magradoodle vs Vangurdoodle - 3/22/2007 2:00:27 PM

FukinTroll

Posts: 6277
Joined: 2/6/2007
From: Under a bridge
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

You forgot switch - Shoobeedoobeedoo

Or was that Mel Torme...

Damn! Why do I always forget the switches?

Maybe because I use the lil pull string on my ceiling fan.

Ah ha! You are no longer switches. you are "lil pull strings".

_____________________________

I'm the guy your girl is thinking about when she is fucking you!

TrollTopia
Greedy Groupie!

The Mods have me on speed Spank!! Gotta luv'em.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

Post #: 18

RE: Magradoodle vs Vangurdoodle - 3/22/2007 2:02:31 PM

mnottertail

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Skodilieodileeatonatonvatatanchew -blowjob

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Post #: 19

RE: Magradoodle vs Vangurdoodle - 3/22/2007 2:02:34 PM

Master96

Posts: 593
Joined: 2/13/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FukinTroll

I think the label thing is getting a little over used. We need some new ones.

Slave-Vangurdoodle
Sub-magradoodle
Domme-Vangooderschmit
Dom- Mogo`ga`doodio

Feel free to toss out some more stuff you want labeled.

LOL

_____________________________

Master96,

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

Understand that actions will always speak louder than words.

Before you speak, ask yourself..
Is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary?
Does it improve upon the silence? - Sai Baba

(in reply to FukinTroll)

Post #: 20

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